On the Way

Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
~ Psalm 84:5

Sunday, January 31, 2010

"Do Not Despair; Do Not Presume"

John Wilson's review of Peter J. Thuesen's Predestination: The American Career of a Contentious Doctrine

Psalm 9 (psalm for the week)

I Will Recount Your Wonderful Deeds

 [1] To the choirmaster: according to Muth-labben. [2] A Psalm of David.

9:1 I will give thanks to the Lord with my whole heart;
I will recount all of your wonderful deeds.
I will be glad and exult in you;
I will sing praise to your name, O Most High.
When my enemies turn back,
they stumble and perish before [3] your presence.
For you have maintained my just cause;
you have sat on the throne, giving righteous judgment.
You have rebuked the nations; you have made the wicked perish;
you have blotted out their name forever and ever.
The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins;
their cities you rooted out;
the very memory of them has perished.
But the Lord sits enthroned forever;
he has established his throne for justice,
and he judges the world with righteousness;
he judges the peoples with uprightness.
The Lord is a stronghold for the oppressed,
a stronghold in times of trouble.
10 And those who know your name put their trust in you,
for you, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek you.
11 Sing praises to the Lord, who sits enthroned in Zion!
Tell among the peoples his deeds!
12 For he who avenges blood is mindful of them;
he does not forget the cry of the afflicted.
13 Be gracious to me, O Lord!
See my affliction from those who hate me,
O you who lift me up from the gates of death,
14 that I may recount all your praises,
that in the gates of the daughter of Zion
I may rejoice in your salvation.
15 The nations have sunk in the pit that they made;
in the net that they hid, their own foot has been caught.
16 The Lord has made himself known; he has executed judgment;
the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands. Higgaion. [4] Selah
17 The wicked shall return to Sheol,
all the nations that forget God.
18 For the needy shall not always be forgotten,
and the hope of the poor shall not perish forever.
19 Arise, O Lord! Let not man prevail;
let the nations be judged before you!
20 Put them in fear, O Lord!
Let the nations know that they are but men! Selah


[1] 9:1 Psalms 9 and 10 together follow an acrostic pattern, each stanza beginning with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet. In the Septuagint they form one psalm
[2] 9:1 Probably a musical or liturgical term
[3] 9:3 Or because of
[4] 9:16 Probably a musical or liturgical term

Saturday, January 30, 2010

fixed-hour prayer

"pray without ceasing"
~ 1 Thessalonians

prayer from the Valley of Vision

Lord, high and holy, meek and lowly,
Thou has brought me to the valley of vision,
where I live in the depths but see thee in the heights;
hemmed in by mountains of sin I behold
Thy glory.
Let me learn by paradox
that the way down is the way up,
that to be low is to be high,
that the broken heart is the healed heart,
that the contrite spirit is the rejoicing spirit,
that the repenting soul is the victorious soul,
that to have nothing is to possess all,
that to bear the cross is to wear the crown,
that to give is to receive,
that the valley is the place of vision.
Lord, in the daytime stars can be seen from deepest wells,
deepest wells,
and the deeper the wells the brighter
Thy stars shine;
Let me find Thy light in my darkness,
Thy life in my death,
that every good work or thought found in me
Thy joy in my sorrow,
Thy grace in my sin,
Thy riches in my poverty
Thy glory in my valley.

wonderful blog link - Hearts & Minds

Byron is one of my favorite people as well as bloggers who cares passionately for books and owns a great bookstore in Dallastown, PA near York.

what doth the Lord require? a tall order

What is good has been explained to you, man; this is what the Lord asks of you: only this, to act justly, to love tenderly and to walk humbly with your God.
~ Micah 6:8

Sunday, January 24, 2010

the lesser ich bins - part vier

Ich bin satt!

Escaping the Storm ~ Jonah

Poets have wrong'd poor storms: such days are best;
They purge the air without, within the breast.

Storms are the triumph of his art.

~ George Herbert, from "The Storms" and "The Bag," in The Country Parson, The Temple

cited by Eugene Peterson in Under the Unpredictable Plant:  An Exploration in Vocational Holiness

Prayer from "Sacred Space" website for daily prayer

Prayer of an Irish hermit
Shame on my thoughts, how they stray from me! I fear great danger from this on the day of eternal judgement. During the psalms they wander on a path that is not right: they run, they distract, they misbehave before the eyes of the great God. Through eager assemblies, through companies of lewd women, through woods, through cities - swifter they are than the wind. One moment they follow ways of loveliness, and the next ways of riotous shame - no lie!
O beloved, truly chaste Christ, to whom every eye is clear, may the grace of the sevenfold spirit come to keep them, to hold them in check. Rule this heart of mine, O swift God of the elements, that you may be my love, and that I may do your will! That I may reach Christ with his chosen companions, that we may be together: they are neither fickle nor inconstant - they are not as I am. (Irish, ninth century)

Saturday, January 23, 2010

Thursday, January 21, 2010

on friends who are not fickle, who really care

17 A friend loves at all times,
and a brother is born for adversity.
~ Proverbs 17:17

I give thanks to God for friends and I have several who have demonstrated over time the above passage:  consistency, loyalty, encouragement, never perfection but faithful loving, nonetheless.

I think it's time I ready Bonhoeffer again on Christian fellowship in Life Together, a related theme to friendship.
Aelred of Riveaulx or a good modern theological reflection on friendship by someone like P.J. Wadell might be of use as well.  But most of all, let's hang, play games, talk, let's just be together as friends.
Facebook is nice and has its place in certain ways---but primacy should always be given in my view to 'face to face' friendships or at least having a good conversation on the phone.

Monday, January 18, 2010

a united & untied heart

11 Teach me your way, O Lord,
that I may walk in your truth;
unite my heart to fear your name.
12 I give thanks to you, O Lord my God, with my whole heart,
and I will glorify your name forever.
13 For great is your steadfast love toward me;
you have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.
~ Psalm 86:11-13

"The Bible regularly pictures the moral course of one's life as a “way” or path, and one's conduct as a “walk” or journey. A faithful person seeks instruction in the ways that please God in order to learn how better to walk in God's truth. Unite my heart, i.e., make it “one” (cf. Jer. 32:39), undivided in its loyalty (so that all of it can give thanks, Ps. 86:12)."
(ESV Study Bible note on v. 11)

towards a godly sorrow - may it be

9yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. 2 Corinthians 7

the tongue of those who are taught

The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught.
Isaiah 50:4
~ a life verse and prayer that it may be increasingly true of me.

Sunday, January 17, 2010

Joy comes with the morning (giving thanks for the Lord's healing)

Psalm 30 was on my mind this morning as I visited New City Fellowship and I shared several verses during the 'testimony time'.  I give thanks for the Lord providing me some healing of depression and anxiety---a true answer to many prayers which I do not take for granted.  Every day can be a battle in various ways.  Recovery and redemption for that matter are life-long endeavors.

I will extol you, O Lord, for you have drawn me up
and have not let my foes rejoice over me.
O Lord my God, I cried to you for help,
and you have healed me.
O Lord, you have brought up my soul from Sheol;
you restored me to life from among those who go down to the pit. [1]
Sing praises to the Lord, O you his saints,
and give thanks to his holy name. [2]
For his anger is but for a moment,
and his favor is for a lifetime. [3]
Weeping may tarry for the night,
but joy comes with the morning.

What is a healthy church member?

Pastor Scott Johnson of Living Hope Church (PCA) in Lititz, PA referenced the above book by Thabiti M. Anyabwile, pastor in the Grand Cayman Islands, in his charge to the New City Fellowship new members and congregation. He listed the nine marks of a 'healthy church member' according Pastor Anyabwile. He then spent a little time discussing the first mark, "expositional listening" and how Pastor Stan Morton provides a good example of expositional preaching.
I became curious and looked up the book this evening.
I will enclose a link to it for reference.


Saturday, January 16, 2010

the gospel gap

“It is amazing how long it took me to really understand the gospel. Like many Christians, I understood early on that my sins had been forgiven [past grace] and that I was going to spend my eternity with Christ [future grace]. But I did not grasp the depth of my need for the benefits of the work of Christ now [present grace]. My externalistic Christianity needed to be infused with the present power of the gospel. It is not enough to embrace Christ’s promise of life after death. We must also embrace his promise of life before death, which is only possible because of Christ’s grace at work in our hearts today.”
~ Tim Lane and Paul Tripp in "How People Change"

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
~ 2 Peter 1:3-4

Thursday, January 14, 2010

once and done?

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could just give things or people once to the Lord and be done with it?
But often, I find, I have to keep giving things to him over and over again.
Fortunately, he delights in us, his children and never tires of us bringing the same concerns.
It’s part of what helps us to walk by faith and not by sight---and reminders that we are finite to keep us humble..
That’s why it’s so deadly and scary for someone to have much pride which is unchecked!
~ Deep thoughts with Doug

“cast your cares on the Lord
For he cares for you…”
1 Peter 5:7

Wednesday, January 13, 2010

Psalm 46 - Prayer for Haiti

46:1 God is our refuge and strength,
a very present [2] help in trouble.
Therefore we will not fear though the earth gives way,
though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea,
though its waters roar and foam,
though the mountains tremble at its swelling. Selah
There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
the holy habitation of the Most High.
God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved;
God will help her when morning dawns.
The nations rage, the kingdoms totter;
he utters his voice, the earth melts.
The Lord of hosts is with us;
the God of Jacob is our fortress. Selah

Psalm 13 - How Long, O Lord?

This Psalm has special meaning for me.  I remember praying it years ago while on a personal, spiritual retreat.
I even wrote a little ditty to its words with my guitar.  I appreciate the raw honesty of the Psalmist admitting the struggle but also the note of hope upon which it ends.
Pray and be blessed!

How Long, O Lord?

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.

13:1 How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face from me?
How long must I take counsel in my soul
and have sorrow in my heart all the day?
How long shall my enemy be exalted over me?
Consider and answer me, O Lord my God;
light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death,
lest my enemy say, “I have prevailed over him,”
lest my foes rejoice because I am shaken.
But I have trusted in your steadfast love;
my heart shall rejoice in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord,
because he has dealt bountifully with me.

rebuke continued...

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but he who hates reproof is stupid.
~ Proverbs 12:1

The Americanization of Mental Illness

Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Packer on happiness

The way to be truly happy is to be truly human, and the way to be

truly human is to be truly godly.

J. I. Packer

sin's reality

"I love to sin, God loves to forgive;
the world is admirably arranged."
~ W.H. Auden

This quote could be taken in a rather sardonic, or callous way...or it could be taken as
a statement of God's mercy provided we lean on it.

Today, I choose the latter!

Born for Nobodies Like Us

a great post from Pastor George Robertson in Augusta, GA.

Monday, January 11, 2010

growing wise from rebukes

 7 "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
       whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
 8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
       rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
 9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
       teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.
 10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
       and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
~ Proverbs 9:7-10

5 Better is open rebuke
       than hidden love.
 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
       but an enemy multiplies kisses.
~ Proverbs 27:5-6

 5 It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke
       than to listen to the song of fools.
~ Ecclesiastes 7:5

Few people enjoy confrontation.  But growth can often come from heeding the 'rebukes' of a godly friend in one's life.  In my own life, this has come a number of times over the years. It is rarely pleasant at first but I've grown to see this as one of God's means of grace in order for me to 'grow up' in Christ as Paul discusses in Ephesians and elsewhere.  One of the functions of Scripture is 'rebuking' as Paul tells Timothy in his second epistle to that  young servant of God:

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
~ 2 Timothy 3:16-17

The Hollow Men by T.S. Eliot

The Hollow Men
T. S. Eliot

Mistah Kurtz—he dead.

A penny for the Old Guy


We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.


Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death’s dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind’s singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death’s dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat’s coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer—

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom


This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death’s other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.


The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death’s twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.


Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning.

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Online text © 1998-2010 Poetry X. All rights reserved.
From The Hollow Men | 1925

Epiphanytide Prayer

O God, by the leading of a star you manifested your only Son to the peoples of the earth: Lead us, who know you now by faith, to your presence, where we may see your glory face to face; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
~ Book of Common Prayer

2 things to ask for in prayer

7 Two things I ask of you;
deny them not to me before I die:
8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying;
give me neither poverty nor riches;
feed me with the food that is needful for me,
9 lest I be full and deny you
and say, “Who is the Lord?”
or lest I be poor and steal
and profane the name of my God.

~ Proverbs 30:7-9

This is one of my Dad's favorite passages which he shared with me recently.

Let Yourself Be Filled

"We should focus on receiving. People who receive are considered great in the kingdom of God. The Bible speaks often of them. There's a certain fullness about them. They are filled to overflowing with abundant grace. Many are found in the Acts of the apostles.
So let's wait for the fullness of Jesus and be completely filled up with him. Then we will be truly satisfied. Diving into the depths of this fullness is what spiritual formation is all about..."
~ Joshua Choonmin Kang

fear in the face

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." You must do the thing you think you cannot do. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

fruit of wisdom

"The fruit of wisdom is Christlikeness, peace, humility and love. And the root of it is faith in Christ as the manifested wisdom of God" (J.L. Packer).

finding ourselves

"When we find that we have found ourselves, we are founded in that which we have finally found to be fine." ~Phineas P. Finley

A Prayer about Christian Cannibalism

This is from Scotty Smith, Founding Pastor of Christ Community Church in Franklin, TN:

A Prayer About Christian Cannibalism
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15
Dear Lord Jesus, I praise you that the call to freedom in the gospel is much more like a subpoena than a mere invitation. Hallelujah… freedom is not optional or an add-on. We were dead in our sins and trespasses when you spoke the life-giving words, “Come forth” to our dead spirits.
I was just as bound in grave clothes as Lazarus was when you brought me to life and liberty through the gospel. How I praise you for the sovereign, death-defeating, liberty-giving power of the gospel. Jesus, those you set free are free indeed!
The freedom to which you’ve subpoenaed us is to define the rest of our lives. This is nowhere more necessary than in the world of our relationships. We are to love one another as you love us, Jesus. It’s such a blatant and ugly contradiction of the gospel when we fall into “Christian cannibalism”—biting and devouring one another. Worse, it’s a sabotaging of your glory and beauty. It’s lying about who you are to the world. Forgive us… forgive me….
This very day… free me from my pettiness and petulance. Show me where I’m holding onto unforgiveness just to gain advantage in a relationship. Show me where I’m rehearsing the sins of others more than I’m rehearsing my own forgiveness in the gospel. Help me know when overlooking the failures of others wouldn’t be cowardice, but courage. Help me learn how to conflict redemptively, rather than destructively, when overlooking is not an option.
Lord Jesus, you have forgiven me from your heart. May this good news be the billboard that is ever before the eyes of my heart, as I live out my freedom in a world of broken people and broken relationships. So very Amen, I pray, in your glorious and grace-full name.

Letter of Athanasius on the Psalms

Psalm 15 - Stability

Psalm 14 (15)
Who is worthy to face the Lord?
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.

Lord, who will live in your tent?
Who will dwell on your holy mountain?
Whoever comes there without stain,
acts rightly, speaks truth in his heart.
Whoever does not speak deceitfully,
or do harm to his neighbour, or slander him.
Whoever despises the evil-doer,
but reveres those who fear the Lord.
Whoever swears and keeps his word, come what may
– lends his money without usury –
takes no bribe to condemn the innocent.
Whoever lives like this
will stand firm for ever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end.
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.


Falling farther with a flaming hand
I knew the question but I lost the answers
I’ll hold the wall for all
I’ll hold it all for all
As long as no one asks no questions.

I got the message
And the message stood

One, Two, three
I got another, got another
One, Two, three
I got another, got another
I got another hit that held me the last time
Don't ya know what I mean Boys?
One, Two, three
I got another, got another.

Falling fast but doing all I can
I know the questions but I lost the answers
I got the message and the message stood

Lease the one who makes it
Profit from the riddle
Kill the one that breaks it
Always in the middle
Keep the dream alive
with sleeping pills you shouldn't fiddle
Lease the one that makes it
Profit from the riddle

I got the message but I lost the race
I got the message but I lost the race

STP #4

Sunday, January 10, 2010

Psalm 27

I'm praying this one, one of my favorites this week. I consider verse 1 to be one of my primary 'life verses' if you will:

27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold [1] of my life;
of whom shall I be afraid?

2 When evildoers assail me
to eat up my flesh,
my adversaries and foes,
it is they who stumble and fall.

3 Though an army encamp against me,
my heart shall not fear;
though war arise against me,
yet [2] I will be confident.

4 One thing have I asked of the Lord,
that will I seek after:
that I may dwell in the house of the Lord
all the days of my life,
to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord
and to inquire [3] in his temple.

5 For he will hide me in his shelter
in the day of trouble;
he will conceal me under the cover of his tent;
he will lift me high upon a rock.

6 And now my head shall be lifted up
above my enemies all around me,
and I will offer in his tent
sacrifices with shouts of joy;
I will sing and make melody to the Lord.

7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud;
be gracious to me and answer me!
8 You have said, “Seek [4] my face.”
My heart says to you,
“Your face, Lord, do I seek.” [5]
9 Hide not your face from me.
Turn not your servant away in anger,
O you who have been my help.
Cast me not off; forsake me not,
O God of my salvation!
10 For my father and my mother have forsaken me,
but the Lord will take me in.

11 Teach me your way, O Lord,
and lead me on a level path
because of my enemies.
12 Give me not up to the will of my adversaries;
for false witnesses have risen against me,
and they breathe out violence.

13 I believe [6] that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord
in the land of the living!
14 Wait for the Lord;
be strong, and let your heart take courage;
wait for the Lord!

Thursday, January 7, 2010

"Peace, Be Still" - Praying Psalm 131

my heart is not proud,
and my eyes are not haughty,
and I do not go after things too great
and too difficult for me.
Surely I have composed and quieted my
like a weaned child on his mother,
like a weaned child, my soul rests on
Israel, hope in the LORD now and forever
~ Psalm 131
as rendered by David Powlison


Tuesday, January 5, 2010

what to pray when you're feeling depressed - Psalm 102

Do Not Hide Your Face from Me
A Prayer of one afflicted, when he is faint and pours out his complaint before the Lord.

102:1 Hear my prayer, O Lord;
let my cry come to you!
2 Do not hide your face from me
in the day of my distress!
Incline your ear to me;
answer me speedily in the day when I call!

3 For my days pass away like smoke,
and my bones burn like a furnace.
4 My heart is struck down like grass and has withered;
I forget to eat my bread.
5 Because of my loud groaning
my bones cling to my flesh.
6 I am like a desert owl of the wilderness,
like an owl [1] of the waste places;
7 I lie awake;
I am like a lonely sparrow on the housetop.
8 All the day my enemies taunt me;
those who deride me use my name for a curse.
9 For I eat ashes like bread
and mingle tears with my drink,
10 because of your indignation and anger;
for you have taken me up and thrown me down.
11 My days are like an evening shadow;
I wither away like grass.

12 But you, O Lord, are enthroned forever;
you are remembered throughout all generations.
13 You will arise and have pity on Zion;
it is the time to favor her;
the appointed time has come.
14 For your servants hold her stones dear
and have pity on her dust.
15 Nations will fear the name of the Lord,
and all the kings of the earth will fear your glory.
16 For the Lord builds up Zion;
he appears in his glory;
17 he regards the prayer of the destitute
and does not despise their prayer.

18 Let this be recorded for a generation to come,
so that a people yet to be created may praise the Lord:
19 that he looked down from his holy height;
from heaven the Lord looked at the earth,
20 to hear the groans of the prisoners,
to set free those who were doomed to die,
21 that they may declare in Zion the name of the Lord,
and in Jerusalem his praise,
22 when peoples gather together,
and kingdoms, to worship the Lord.

23 He has broken my strength in midcourse;
he has shortened my days.
24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not away
in the midst of my days—
you whose years endure
throughout all generations!”

25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you will remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
27 but you are the same, and your years have no end.
28 The children of your servants shall dwell secure;
their offspring shall be established before you.